Wind back the clock a couple of hundred years when the roads of Ramsgate town were narrow and few, and the town had a rabbit warren of interconnecting passageways. I imagine it like a scene from a Dickens novel, dark, sooty, smokey, and the candle lights of the local pub flickering.
But when people visit Ramsgate and wander around the town I bet they would be thrilled to know they could visit Ramsgates best kept secret and possibly enjoy a proper pub lunch that celebrates Ramsgates heritage.
But the reality is that you could do this and not change a thing, literally leave the carpets and the chipped tables, it's kind of the charm.
There is a delightful courtyard to the rear, plus
Sure I know that Dublin and a back street pub in little ol Ramsgates is a world apart...
Behind the gorgeous Georgian and Victorian facade of Ramsgates sea front is the remnants of some pretty cool old buildings.
But you have to look for them.
There is such incredible history in Ramsgate, it would have been a magnificent town in the 1800's. Affluent, Artistic, Royal.
Harbour Street, is a narrow road lined with shops leading from the harbour to the High Street..
Harbour Street in recent years has been hit hard with the closure of independent businesses, now its well and truly on the up and its become a bit of a foodie hot spot!
As you head towards the town you might come across a side alley called Thomson passage...
The stone paving is a clue to its history, still intact.. And as the alley opens out you are met with a pretty pub called The Horse and Groom.
I like to think of it as a bit of an oasis. It's on its own, its off the beaten track, it stands as it always has. Its a hidden gem.
I never really understood why it earned the nick name "Shit n Shovel" I can't decide if it's just a made up name that stuck, because it meant you could say shit in an attempt to look or sound clever or funny, or whether it was actually a reference to mucking out horses?
According to history The Horse and Groom was indeed near the site of the old sackets livery yard...
Today it is still open for business, one of the last of the old school pubs that remind us of the cultural history of Ramsgate.
I have an issue with the place.
Maybe 50 years ago these were 10 a penny around here, on every corner a pub, but now they are almost all gone, a bit like having a MK1 escort in the 70's and putting it in the garage and forgetting about it. 50 years later the garage is opened and it's the best and most original version around, and it's rare.. And that means it's worth a mint...
That's how I see The Horse and Groom.
I think this is probably the best proper pub in Ramsgate.
As a business it just doesn't really get out of the blocks.
My issue is that it doesn't really play to its strengths.
This is a matter for opinion, but mine is that it does little to throw off its dirty back street boozer stereotype.
I think it should be playing the best pub in Ramsgate card.
I know it has a good locals following, and it actually doesn't attract some of the less desirables that are drawn to its closest neighbour.
In my opinion this place can totally carry off being a foodie goto....
I know, I know, you locals don't want any of that lot in here, plenty of places to go and eat posh stuff, leave this alone for the locals, just the way it is... But pies, now there's something you can pull off, if you do it right.
Below is the meal times as advertised on their website, and it's pretty clear they don't really do food, only pizzas on friday... That's got frozen Chicago Town written all over it! (if you are lucky!)
Not sure about Saturday, and Sunday you might get a roast that is "pretty good" which was the review they use on the website (see above).
This place just ticks all the boxes of a hidden gem to be discovered. The trick is to not disappoint.
Many readers of this will say "why not let sleeping dogs lie, what's wrong with just being a boozer anyway, too much faff to attract people in... Plus It all needs decorating and we dont want it to change"
Opposite is the old Page and Sons wine merchants. Now called Age and sons because the P fell off! This picture was when it was open as a restaurant and bar.
Is it still closed? But I'm sure it will be open soon, and it's a great asset to be along side, the more people drawn to the area, the better for everyone!
Put signs up, lead them to you. Play music, imagine old style pub and piano, set the scene, stage, set, setting.
If it's okay for Tony's the newsagent to play music to draw people to his shop, then why not the same here?
Music in the air, I'm not talking the latest dance music, proper old school pub singsong music... Play it, people will follow... even the pied piper knew that!
There's something about the location which makes me feel like I'm in Dublin, little lanes, great pubs, music, laughter, cheer, every corner is a new discovery...
it's a small world nowadays... Nothing is impossible....
There's not many pubs that could pull this off, but if I could pick one, this would be it!!
If you are out in Ramsgate then please put your head in and enjoy a drink here, and maybe even come for the live music as well...
HOW DOES IT SCORE
1) Is it to the expected standard? Yes it has all the elements of a good old fashioned locals pub. It is friendly, welcoming.
Once you are in you forget this is supposed to be "the shit n shovel. " It stops way short of being exceptional and only vaguely serves food but is well deserving of ONE STAR
2) Does it do something that you have always wanted to try? No it has no nice surprises (but no nasty ones either), it is a tied pub so the beer offering isnt anything interesting. The food offer is a token gesture at best. NO STAR
3) Is it fairly priced? Its neither here nor there so I cant knock it ONE STAR
4) Cleanliness, including customer toilets. It is clean, its not contemporary clean, but its not a contemporary pub. If it did food as a meaningful part of its business I would probably have to say the toilets arnt the best, but it doesnt. ONE STAR
5) Service. For what it does, its what you expect. ONE STAR
CONTRIBUTING EVIDENCE
A) Does it have a clear and relevant identity? As a little back street pub it performs adequately. But as I said I doesnt really move through the gears to put itself firmly on the map.
B) Does it stand out for quality and standards? No. Its just an average pub.
C) Is there areas of the business that someone else does better? Wow where could I start? Yes is the answer, but it would probably need someone to charge from the front, and not be the custodians at the back. Look at the BEDFORD INN as an example. Not far away, but far enough out of town to not be a town pub really, or a locals pub, but its finger is on the pulse and people want to go there.
D) Does it diversify? It has live music on occasions, and it will do a roast dinner on a sunday. They work within their comfort zone.
E) Will customers return without hesitation? I think it would be fair to say that it remains a safe option for a drink, but its not a place to go. It is the stop gap. So yes people will return, when they remember.
THE HORSE AND GROOM SCORES A FANTASTIC 4 STARS BECAUSE IT DOES THE SIMPLE THINGS WELL. WHAT IT DOESN'T DO IS TRY TO DO MORE THAN THAT, IT LACKS THE AMBITION THAT SOME OF ITS COMPETITORS HAVE.
THERE IS NO REASON WHY THIS LOVELY PUB CANNOT ACHIEVE 5 STARS PLUS A FEW BONUS STARS ✨
Charlotte Ct, Ramsgate CT11 8HE
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